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Subject: A history lesson - Then and Now
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RIC0User is Offline
Big Ring
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sumwaresin, KY
04/30/2008 9:12 AM  
SOME OF YOU ARE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THAT NEARLY EVERY FAMILY IN AMERICA WAS GROSSLY AFFECTED BY WW II.  MOST OF YOU DON'T REMEMBER THE RATIONING OF MEAT, SHOES, GASOLINE AND SUGAR.  NO TIRES FOR OUR AUTOMOBILES, AND A SPEED LIMIT OF 35 MILES AN HOUR ON THE ROAD, NOT TO MENTION, NO NEW AUTOMOBILES.  READ THIS AND THINK ABOUT HOW WE WOULD REACT IF TAKEN OVER BY FOREIGNERS IN 2008.

 

Raymond S Kraft is a writer living in Northern California that has

studied the Middle Eastern culture and religion.
He has written an EXCELLENT essay. Well thought out and presented.

Historical Significance
:

Sixty-three years ago, Nazi Germany had overrun almost all of Europe and hammered England
to the verge of bankruptcy and defeat.  The Nazis had sunk more than 400 British ships in their convoys between England and America taking food and war materials

At that time the US was in an isolationist, pacifist mood, and most Americans wanted nothing to do with the European or the Asian war ..

Then along came Pearl Harbor on December 7
,1941, and in outrage Congress unanimously declared war on Japan, and the following day on Germany, who had not yet attacked us.  It was a dicey thing. We had few allies

France was not an ally, as the Vichy government of France quickly aligned itself with its German occupiers. Germany was certainly not an ally, as Hitler was intent on setting up a Thousand Year Reich in Europe. Japan was not an ally, as it was well on its way to owning and controlling all of Asia.

Together, Japan and Germany had long-range plans of invading Canada and Mexico, as launching pads to get into the United States over our northern and southern borders, after they finished gaining control of Asia and Europe.

America's only allies then were England, Ireland, Scotland, Canada, Australia, and Russia.  That was about it. All of Europe, from Norway to Italy (except Russia in the East) was already under the Nazi heel

The US was certainly not prepared for war.  The US had drastically downgraded most of its military forces after WW I because of the depression, so that at the outbreak of WW II, Army units were training with broomsticks because they didn't have guns, and cars with 'tank' painted on the doors because they didn't have real tanks A huge chunk of our Navy had just been sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor .

Britain had already gone bankrupt, saved only by the donation of $600 million in gold bullion in the Bank of England (that was actually the property of Belgium ) given by Belgium to England to carry on the war when Belgium was overrun by Hitler (a little known fact).

Actually, Belgium surrendered on day one, because it was unable to oppose the German invasion, and the Germans bombed Brussels into rubble the next day just to prove they could.

Britain had already been holding out for two years in the face of staggering losses and the near decimation of its Royal Air Force in the Battle of Britain, and was saved from being overrun by Germany only because Hitler made the mistake of thinking the Brits were a relatively minor threat that could be dealt with later.  Hitler, first turned his attention to Russia, in the late summer of 1940 at a time when England was on the verge of collapse.

Ironically, Russia saved America's butt by putting up a desperate fight for two years, until the US got geared up to begin hammering away at Germany.

Russia lost something like 24,000,000 people in the sieges of Stalingrad and Moscow alone. 90% of them from cold and starvation, mostly civilians, but also more than a 1,000,000 soldiers

Had Russia surrendered, Hitler would have been able to focus his entire war effort against the Brits, then America. If that had happened, the Nazis could possibly have won the war.

All of this has been brought out to illustrate that turning points in history are often dicey things.  Now, we find ourselves at another one of those key moments in history.

There is a very dangerous minority in Islam that either has, or wants, and may soon have, the ability to deliver small nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons, almost anywhere in the world.

The Jihadis, the militant Muslims, are basically Nazis in Kaffiyahs -- they believe that Islam, a radically conservative form of Wahhabi Islam, should own and control the Middle East first, then Europe, then the world. To them, all who do not bow to their will of thinking should be killed, enslaved, or subjugated. They want to finish the Holocaust, destroy Israel , and purge the world of Jews. This is their mantra. (goal)

There is also a civil war raging in the Middle East -- for the most part not a hot war, but a war of ideas.  Islam is having its Inquisition and its Reformation, but it is not yet known which side will win -- the Inquisitors, or the Reformationists.

If the Inquisition wins, then the Wahhabis, the Jihadis, will control the Middle East, the OPEC oil, and the US, European, and Asian economies.

The techno-industrial economies will be at the mercy of OPEC -- not an OPEC dominated by the educated, rational Saudis of today, but an OPEC dominated by the Jihadis.  Do you want gas in your car?  Do you want heating oil next winter?  Do you want the dollar to be worth anything?  You had better hope the Jihad, the Muslim Inquisition, loses, and the Islamic Reformation wins.

If the Reformation movement wins, that is, the moderate Muslims who believe that Islam can respect and tolerate other religions, live in peace with the rest of the world, and move out of the 10th century into the 21st, then the troubles in the Middle East will eventually fade away.  A moderate and prosperous Middle East will emerge.

We have to help the Reformation win, and to do that we have to fight the Inquisition, i.e., the Wahhabi movement, the Jihad, Al Qaeda and the Islamic terrorist movements.  We have to do it somewhere.  We can't do it everywhere at once.  We have created a focal point for the battle at a time and place of our choosing in Iraq.  Not in New York, not in London , or Paris or Berlin, but in Iraq, where we are doing two important things.

(1) We deposed Saddam Hussein.  Whether Saddam Hussein was directly involved in the 9/11 terrorist attack or not, it is undisputed that Saddam has been actively supporting the terrorist movement for decades Saddam is a terrorist!  Saddam is, or was, a weapon of mass destruction, responsible for the deaths of probably more than a 1,000,000 Iraqis and 2,000,000 Iranians

(2) We created a battle, a confrontation, a flash point, with Islamic terrorism in Iraq.  We have focused the battle.  We are killing bad people, and the ones we get there we won't have to get here.  We also have a good shot at creating a democratic, peaceful Iraq, which will be a catalyst for democratic change in the rest of the Middle East, and an outpost for a stabilizing American military presence in the Middle East for as long as it is needed

WW II, the war with the Japanese and German Nazis, really began with a 'whimper' in 1928.  It did not begin with Pearl Harbor.  It began with the Japanese invasion of China. It was a war for fourteen years before the US joined it. It officially ended in 1945 -- a 17 year war -- and was followed by another decade of US occupation in Germany and Japan to get those countries reconstructed and running on their own a gain
- 27 year war.

WW II cost the United States an amount equal to approximately a full year's GDP -- adjusted for inflation, equal to about $12 trillion dollars.  WW II cost America more than 400,000 soldiers killed in action, and nearly 100,000 still missing in action.

The Iraq war has, so far, cost the United States about $160,000,000,000, which is roughly what the 9/11 terrorist attack cost New York.  It has also cost about 3,000 American lives, which is roughly equivalent to lives that the Jihad killed (within the United States ) in the 9/11 terrorist attack.

The cost of not fighting and winning WW II would have been unimaginably greater -- a world dominated by Japanese Imperialism and German Nazism.

This is not a 60-Minutes TV show, or a 2-hour movie in which everything comes out okay.  The real world is not like that. It is messy, uncertain, and sometimes bloody and ugly.  It always has been, and probably always will be.

The bottom line is that we will have to deal with Islamic terrorism until we defeat it, whenever that is.  It will not go away if we ignore it

If the US can create a reasonably democratic and stable Iraq, then we have an ally, like England, in the Middle East, a platform, from which we can work to help modernize and moderate the Middle East.  The history of the world is the clash between the forces of relative civility and civilization, and the barbarians clamoring at the gates to conquer the world.

The Iraq War is merely another battle in this ancient and never ending war.  Now, for the first time ever, the barbarians are about to get nuclear weapons.  Unless somebody prevents them from getting them.

We have four options:

1 We can defeat the Jihad now, before it gets nuclear weapons.

2 . We can fight the Jihad later, after it gets nuclear weapons (which may be as early as next year, if Iran
ʼs progress on nuclear weapons is what Iran claims it is).

3 . We can surrender to the Jihad and accept its dominance in the Middle East now; in Europe in the next few years or decades, and ultimately in America.

OR

4 .
We can stand down now, and pick up the fight later when the Jihad is more widespread and better armed, perhaps after the Jihad has dominated France and Germany and possibly most of the rest of Europe. It will, of course, be more dangerous, more expensive, and much bloodier.

If you oppose this war, I hope you like the idea that your children, or grandchildren, may live in an Islamic America under the Mullahs and the Sharia, an America that resembles Iran today.

The history of the world is the history of civilization clashes, cultural clashes. All wars are about ideas, ideas about what society and civilization should be like, and the most determined always win.

Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win. The
pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.

Remember, perspective is every thing, and America's schools teach too little history for perspective to be clear, especially in the young American mind.

The Cold War lasted from about 1947 at least until the Berlin Wall came down in 1989; forty-two years!

Europe spent the first half of the 19th century fighting Napoleon, and from 1870 to 1945 fighting Germany!

World War II began in 1928, lasted 17 years, plus a ten year occupation, and the US still has troops in Germany and Japan.  W
W II resulted in the death of more than 50,000,000 people, maybe more than 100,000,000 people, depending on which estimates you accept.

The US has taken more than 3,000 killed in action in IraqThe US took more than 4,000 killed in action on the morning of June 6, 1944, the first day of the Normandy Invasion to rid Europe of Nazi Imperialism.

In WW II the US averaged
2,000 KIA a week -- for four years.  Most of the individual battles of WW II lost more Americans than the entire Iraq war has done so far.

The stakes are at least as high. A world dominated by representative governments with civil rights, human rights, and personal freedoms or a world dominated b y a radical Islamic Wahhabi movement, by the Jihad, under the Mullahs and the Sharia (Islamic law)

It's difficult to understand why the average American does not grasp this. They favor human rights, civil rights, liberty and freedom, but evidently not for Iraqis.

'Peace Activists' always seem to demonstrate here in America, where it's safe.

Why don't we see Peace Activist demonstrating in Iran, Syria, Iraq , Sudan, North Korea, in the places that really need peace activism the most?  I'll tell you why!  They would be killed!

The liberal mentality is supposed to favor human rights, civil rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc . , but if the Jihad wins, wherever the Jihad wins, it is the end of civil rights, human rights, democracy, multiculturalism, diversity, etc.

Americans who oppose the liberation of Iraq are coming down on the side of their own worst enemy!

So if your a liberal, are you ready to watch your family die around you because you think everyone loves you as you love them??  Time to wake up, pull your head out of your azz and start supporting America, if not get out, we don't need you nor do we want you.

PRUser is Offline
Big Ring
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Jackson County
04/30/2008 10:01 AM  
Whatever.
RIC0User is Offline
Big Ring
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sumwaresin, KY
04/30/2008 10:10 AM  
Posted By PR on 04/30/2008 10:01 AM
Whatever.


Of course that was an email sent to me so I just copied and pasted it.  But really though Paul that's all you got to say???  Come on let us have it.. LOL
badgerUser is Offline

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04/30/2008 10:13 AM  
Rico......thank you so very very much!!  That is what I am talking about!!

What a great synopsis of the ever present danger we face right now in reference to the historical significance of the past.

We fun loving mtb riding fanatics sometimes can forget why we have the freedom to shred some of the most blessed soil in the world.
Unfortunetly, the majority of America is oblivious to the evils that lay wide awake in the MiddleEast.

We Americans are blessed beyond belief in comparison to the rest of the world.  All I hear about at work is a bunch of whining about the stupid gas prices....I want to tell people to shut their cake hole and thank God we have gas at the cheap price we do...have you checked gas prices in Europe lately...moron!

Whine, whine, whine... while people are lucky to make it from day to day in other 3rd world countries...count your blessings people, we have so soon forgotten the days of our impoverished nation just a few decades back when our Parents and Grandparents fought tooth and nail through the derpression years, only to raise this country to the most properous, flourishing, and most powerful nation in the world!!

If we take the freedoms we have for granted and don't help to police (or should I say lead from the front) this world no one will. There are way too many mamby pampy, spineless,  historically blind Americans that dont have a clue to the dear price that was paid for us to have our incredible freedoms.  The cost of freedom is huge and costs dearly.

War is an ugly thing, no doubt! The reality is people need to wake up and understand we have responsibilites to completely eliminate terrorism and the threat of terrorism once and for all....Or we will repeat history as Rico outlined..if you think the wars of the past were bad, just think of the horrific outcome of nuclear war would have.

We should have done much more the first time we were in the Middle East.  Lets get the job done right once and for all.

Do we we want this war of terrorism on our own soil? Of course not.

Well the truth be told if we are passive about this, it will be over here, regardless of what some idiots want you to think.  Its not just about the control of oil, come on people, give it a break already...it's way more!! Its about our sacred lives and the lives of our children, not just in our nation, but of the entire world!! 

Thank you to all of those serving our country and the future of the world as we know it, and standing up while other weak kneed, thumb sucking, whiners hide in the bushes and watch.

Thanks again Rico for brining such an important topic to the table. I only hope people take the time to read what you had to say.  It's time people listen to what is truly going on, get their head out of the sand, and stop listening to the liberal hog wash crap thats in the media, that so many Americans have fallen prey to and continue to buy into!!!!
RodUser is Offline
Little Ring
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Morehead
04/30/2008 10:27 AM  
That is propaganda! It's amazing how it compares WWII, when an evil dictator almost took over the world, to Islamic extremists who happened to knock down two buildings in  the U.S., bomb a few oversea embassies, and U.S.S. Cole.  I agree something has to be done about it, but that's comparing an orange to a watermelon. An apple is too similar. Just for the record I'm a history major so I understand the past too well and it's insane how someone could compare what we're going through now to WWII.  Now all we need is a poster of a woman going to work in a factory for it to be complete.
G-MANUser is Offline
Big Ring
Big Ring
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Louisville, KY
04/30/2008 10:41 AM  
Rico,

We live in strange times...Up is Down...Black is White...Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right...Dogs and Cats are living together...ect...

The leftists in this country have way too much power. Sadly, many of them were elected and continue to be elected...ie...Ted Kenedy, Nancey Pelosi, John Kerry, Barak Hussein Obama, ect.. The entire list would likely be as long as your original post.

They may not wake up until it is too late. Sadly, that screws all of us! A REAL history lesson is just what we need. Too many will just say we deserve to be hated because of our interference abroad.

America has always been a force for good. When the shi+ hits the fan, where does everybody turn for help? [AMERICA] Have we always done everything right? NO We are not imperialists, despite what the lefties think.

Do they even teach history anymore? Has it been so revised over the years that has caused so many to hate it here? I've been to several other countries during my time in the Marines and despite our problems, there is no other place like this on earth.

Can you move to Japan and become Japanese? Can you move to Russia and become a Russian? Can you move to Iran and become an Iranian? NO NO and NO The list goes on. This is the only country on earth where you can move here and become a citizen. If it so bad here, why do so many people want to move here?

I am a proud American who believes in GOD, our FLAG, and our right as individuals to bear ARMS. In the end, they may be the only things that will save us from ourselves.
badgerUser is Offline

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04/30/2008 11:05 AM  

Rod,
Glad to hear your a history major, seriously. But let me guess your History teachers are liberal which would probably explain your tainted perspective. I did not "major" in history in college, although I did take several classes in American and World History, this does not make me and expert nor would I ever say, "I know history all too well." 
My question to you or to anyone out there reading this, is how well have you studied the long roads of suffering and the sacrifices that were paid to earn our freedom and keep our freedoms here in America? 
If your experiences in college with course study are similar to mine, I would have to say, they are probably very limited. Most colleges today are so watered down, boardering in a questionable grey area making sure they are being so called "politically correct" they fail to emphasize the truth of the incredible prices paid by our founding fathers, and by the others that followed who value the foundations of what this country stands for.
I truly believe if you get ahold of some of the tough decisions the leaders of this great nation made, placing their best interests aside for the generations to come they had not even seen yet, your view may be different.
Very. very few people today in our society have enough courage, character and integrity to place the future of their country before their own selfish interests.
Rod, I'm not speaking directly to you I am speaking in general terms, so please dont take what I said personally.

RowbearUser is Offline
Big Ring
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Lexington, KY
04/30/2008 11:34 AM  
I just hope the three of you don't get together and do something stupid, like try to blow up a federal building or something. Too bad Barry Goldwater isn't running this year.
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04/30/2008 11:53 AM  
Posted By RIC0 on 04/30/2008 10:10 AM


Of course that was an email sent to me so I just copied and pasted it.  But really though Paul that's all you got to say???  Come on let us have it.. LOL
And yet you post it on every cycling site you can find.  Get a life Loser!
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Lexington, KY USA
04/30/2008 12:29 PM  

And now we resort to name calling.  Very mature.  I'd almost bet you flipped your monitor off as well.  Why don't we just arm wrestle or get in a cage and fight it out then let it be?  LOL

I think this is an appropriate time for...

I LIKE SOCK PUPPETS!!


I'm not fat. That's a fuel tank for the love machine!!!
Big Tommy CUser is Offline
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04/30/2008 12:33 PM  
Man. his WWII history is really not very accurate.
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Jackson County
04/30/2008 12:44 PM  
Whatever.
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Louisville, KY
04/30/2008 1:11 PM  
Isn't this how you guys managed to tank the last forum?

Steven Webster
Web Guy, BikeClicks.com
RIC0User is Offline
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sumwaresin, KY
04/30/2008 1:16 PM  
Posted By Outlaw on 04/30/2008 11:53 AM
Posted By RIC0 on 04/30/2008 10:10 AM


Of course that was an email sent to me so I just copied and pasted it.  But really though Paul that's all you got to say???  Come on let us have it.. LOL

And yet you post it on every cycling site you can find.  Get a life Loser!


I posted it on the only 2 sites I visit.  Be sure to stop and introduce yourself to me at a race or on the trail, white KHS and most people know me at the races they'll point me out.  Unless your a coward and can only hide behind a name.

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sumwaresin, KY
04/30/2008 1:18 PM  
Posted By WebGuy on 04/30/2008 1:11 PM
Isn't this how you guys managed to tank the last forum?


Not really it was a crappy website and software I believe.  I've been listening to crickets chirping on this site long enough.  Time to stir the hornets nest a little and put some life into this place.
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04/30/2008 1:35 PM  
Posted By RIC0 on 04/30/2008 1:18 PM
Posted By WebGuy on 04/30/2008 1:11 PM
Isn't this how you guys managed to tank the last forum?


Not really it was a crappy website and software I believe.  I've been listening to crickets chirping on this site long enough.  Time to stir the hornets nest a little and put some life into this place.

There is a lot better ways to do that on a Mountain bike forum.  Here is a few topics for you to try next time your bored, 26er -vs- 29er,  Sandbagging, Leg shaving, roadies...
badgerUser is Offline

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04/30/2008 2:13 PM  
I'm checking out on this one. Dont want to rattle too many feathers, not that I intended to, just speaking from the heart about how I feel about the awesome country we live in.

I have no problem escaping the reality of today and reverting back into my little world of more important things like leg shaving, endos, carnage and such...which seem to take precedent on this site...rightfully so since it's all about bikes...right?

What were we thinking bringing such things into the KYMBA community. Lets drop it Rico.

Lets leave these topics to be diced out in the political arena and with the other producers who decide our futures and whether we have trails to ride in the future.

I'm sure looking back when we are sitting in our rocking chairs recollecting our years of hammering away on our bikes and we're incapable of turning over our granny gears anymore we will say to ourselves, "Sure glad we didn't get involved in something that really mattered to our kids."

I guess after years of absence from being mentally and physically consumed in the the cycling scene few things do truly change...it's all about the bike.....


G-MANUser is Offline
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Louisville, KY
04/30/2008 3:06 PM  
Posted By StevenG on 04/30/2008 1:35 PM
Posted By RIC0 on 04/30/2008 1:18 PM
Posted By WebGuy on 04/30/2008 1:11 PM
Isn't this how you guys managed to tank the last forum?


Not really it was a crappy website and software I believe.  I've been listening to crickets chirping on this site long enough.  Time to stir the hornets nest a little and put some life into this place.

There is a lot better ways to do that on a Mountain bike forum.  Here is a few topics for you to try next time your bored, 26er -vs- 29er,  Sandbagging, Leg shaving, roadies...
Chirp!

RodUser is Offline
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Morehead
04/30/2008 3:38 PM  
I completely agree with you about the long hard roads that were traveled badger. We've had soldiers in many wars marching in wars with bloody feet, freezing to death at valley forge, etc. I agree it was a long hard road, but the two comparisions don't hold water. I also agree if I or any of us was put into a leadership position we would make mistakes. It is just easier in retrospect to see the mistakes that people make and then write books about them. My college professors are anything except politically correct and one guy is called constantly by the dean. As in every college I've had professors that are liberal and conservative. I've always been liberal. Oh yea, I didn't take anything personal. I always welcome a good discussion, but like you said we better not stir the pot someone may get upset.


Oh yea, I love this quote, "Isn't this how you guys managed to tank the last forum? " So we post on the forum and it crashes? Maybe kymba should invest in something that will allow ky mtbers to communicate with each other about any topic they choose.
G-MANUser is Offline
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Louisville, KY
04/30/2008 3:47 PM  
Oh yea, I love this quote, "Isn't this how you guys managed to tank the last forum? " So we post on the forum and it crashes? Maybe kymba should invest in something that will allow ky mtbers to communicate with each other about any topic they choose.

Rod, I completely agree with you said.
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